Real explody goodness..or so i hope

Well nice to see someone thinking outside of the box in these finacnially straightened times.

The RPG-7 series of antiarmour/personnel weapons have been a thorn in the side of Military forces for nearly half a century now and the wests versions have always been more complex an therefore more expensive. Now weapons like the Carl Gustav or SMAAW or M72 family are great but in some cases they are two expensive to field in large numbers..unlike the RPG7 which can be found almost anywhere. 

http://www.defensereview.com/airtronic-usa-rpg-7-amerikansky-rocket-propelled-grenade-launcher/

Now Airtronic a US arm’s company have come up with a copy of the RPG-7 and i have to say it looks good and has many possibilities. So how long before the ADF take it up as it maybe the only anti-armour weapon we can afford in a couple of years!!

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21 Responses to “Real explody goodness..or so i hope”

  1. LERMONTOV Says:

    You are so not funny! Fire 66, then fire an RPG and you’ll know the diff.

  2. maggsworld Says:

    I am afraid I completely lack any understand of these toys. I suspect I should be grateful!!

  3. Dr Yobbo Says:

    Randomly, was reading about this on Wiki the other day – think I needed a link for a RPG for a World of Bollocks post. Will demur to Lerm’s first hand knowledge thereof but hell, if barefoot Afghani goat herders can use them then surely the ADF’s finest can put them to good use.

  4. chazfh Says:

    Lerm of course there’s a big diff between firing a m72 compared to an RPG but the issue is here is tactical usage. All our high falutin non-guided support weaponary is about accuracy, reliability, minimising back blast etc etc. however as the article points out we also have a minimal warhead range. this isn’t a problem with the RPG-7 series.

    Are we saying that we can’t improve on the model and still make it economically worthwhile?

  5. havock21 Says:

    Chaz, I would Hazard, that heading down the RPG path would also involve a structural shift, unless we can shrink them significantly. whilst inside a DFSW platoon you have a dedicated Anti Armour capability, the beauty of the 66 is that its dispersed within the standard Infantry section and does not take up a WHOLE MAN. Most RPG operators, by virtue of its size, tend to be dedicated to this role.

    Whats also missing from the SOV, typical section is the western version of a Grenadier, which the 203 gives us. also, the 203 can be and is , being readily attached to section or platoon members. Its almost at a point I suspect where it will become a STANDARD attachment to all diggers fighting kit.

    Then we have the rotary grenade launcher, hasn’t really made inroads yet, as a section weapon, but given its rate of fire, especially for Urban warfare, I would be screaming down that path as opposed to a RPG. You are able to carry more shots, keep the 66 and its counter parts for Heavy jobs though.

    As for MRAAW units such as the carl, I would need to check, but in the medium category, it certainly out classes the RPG for impact / accuracy. I know, you can point the RPG into the air, or thats, significantly elevate it, sending the warhead down range like a small mortar, possibly with a greater rate of fire than the Carl, but its not what we use them dor, doesn’t fit into the Urban argument and would involve a doctrine shift for that and how we do our stuff.

    The 66 is beautiful to shoot, cannot comment on the RPG. But I also know the accuracy available in an INDIRECT fire role, we will call it a lob, with a 203 / homer, is pretty dam good. I would be heading down the path of developing the projectiles penetration capabilities for the 203 I think.

    The other one you touch is BACK BLAST. by viture of being in an urban enviro, most cases you have issues discharging a weapon like that, its also about signature on discharge, a case of beeing seen, means being shot back at…NOT GOOD ( lol).

  6. Dr Yobbo Says:

    I understand from my limited reading that there’s few things easier to ID and pick off than a dude who’s just fired a RPG-7 at y’all. If there’s anything left of y’all to fire back of course

  7. chazfh Says:

    There are pro and cons for the utilising of this type of weaponary. but it should be pointed out that the RPG-7 series has been sucessfully utilised esp against western troops for longer than many of us have been alive.

    Con’s
    1, requires dedicated specialist in the field so you lose one rifleman per squad.
    2, Backblast, this is considerable and requires careful placing to minimise damage to the grenadier and his?her squadmates
    3,Accuracy, allegedly it is possible to miss an elephant with this thing, if it’s moving and more than 100m away.
    4, Portage, except for the S varient which was designed to be broken down into two parts for paratroops it’s cumbersume to carry and when loaded front heavy (for obvious reasons)
    5, poor quality manufacture

    Pro’s
    1, cheap unit and ammo price
    2, Versatile has been utilised in almost all environments
    3, easy to use
    4, wide variation of munitions available off the shelf. Possibility of smarting up the rounds as well.
    5, Greater munition effectiveness compared wth either 40mm rifle or M203 greandes or M72 66mm warhead.

    In addition the Airtronic version offers the following in it’s favor
    1, familiarity (utilisation of fittings currently used on the M4)
    2, Improved accuracy and ergonomics
    3, Improved reliability due to improved quality control during manufactoring

  8. Therbs Says:

    I like Hav’s angling for the rotary grenade launcher. Go pig shooting and take one of them along for family groups of the oinkers. This little piggy go splat!
    Saw a TV spot about some army blokes who were tasked with getting rid of some feral cats in Queensland to help protect one of the many struggling species. One of the blokes said they went out with NVG’s for spotting . When they took off the gogs and lit up the spotlights down one gully he said the cats eyes were sparkling like stars. Betcha he could have done with a 66. Vapourise the little fuckers. I think they weren’t actually meant to shoot them, just suss out where most of the feral kitties were so they could be dealt with later.

  9. Moko Says:

    WARNING: Gratuitous Self Promotion Below…

    HEre’s how you shoot them down when someone’s firing one at your vehicle from any distance away.

    Area Denial Baby.

  10. chazfh Says:

    Therbs and havock,

    The problem is that very few militaries have found an actual use for the rotary launchers. The seppos after playing with them for a long time have only formally adopted the upgraded Milkor launcher. The SADF or whatever it’s called now use them and the Russian army issues one the 6G30 to some units.

    And the movement towards smart ‘nades from semi auto/bolt action weapons again have their uses but the level of power of these rounds (even the thermobaric’s) are much less than those available to the RPG7 series or the SMAAW, and MRAAW

  11. chazfh Says:

    Ahh talking of feral kitties…

  12. LERMONTOV Says:

    Chaz, upon re-reading my comment – it comes across far more flippantly than I intended. So apologies for that – I meant to take a dig at the “only anti-armour weapon we can afford in a couple of years!!” – not the general idea that we couldn’t improve our Army’s Anti-armour capability. But, perhaps I’m overly optimistic re defence funding!

    As you know, the Aust Army has an extremely limited anti-armour capability. And I think that any ideas to improve this are worth pursuing. I agree with your proposition that accuracy here is vital. However, the RPG’s lack of portability v a 66 wld render it superfluous as long as we rely on a light infantry model.

  13. chazfh Says:

    Lerm, at a time when we’re going light on ship buildings and not allowing for vessels being up for maintenance and blue and gold crews on even our Armidale class PB’s. Why do you think they’ll continue paying lots ‘n lots for Javelin refills?!!

    Seriously though the RPG-7 is much more than a tank wounder, & the M72 is limited in what it can do due the max size of the munition. And lets face it smart muntions cost alot to be used as bunker busters.

    The way I look at this opportunity is that a round from an RPG-7 is effectively a direct fire 82mm mortar round, a grenadier can easily carry 4-6 rounds (depending on his other kit), that is a major force equaliser on the ground, and if they could work out a gas ejection system so much the better.

  14. havock21 Says:

    Mate, like Lerm I think they are a wicked piece of kit, certainly cannot disagree with some of your arguments, but I mentioned it, so has lerm, a significant shift in Doctrine is required, that will change the standing structure as well.

    If we were in the desert or at The Fulda GAP as it once was, looking at massed IFV’s an MBT’s, hell yes, we would need to be screaming down this path.

    A couple of things I see happening over the next ten year period will be the reduction in size of these weapons warheads, thats increased lethality of explosives, in a reduced size. Once this happens we will see i think a significant shift, you will then get into true portability weapons of the type, just not size you now speak of.

    Also, in the ant tank role, given the Gabriel systems like Israel is fielding for anti projectile interception, increases in armour survivability and reactive composition, a focus towards hitting the lower flanks and as always the underside. but its the flanks I really see as the big one.

    Shaped charges, forming the molten copper / whatever slug, maybe in the form of a house brick, remote detonated. in an urban environment, this would be a DP weapon, two settings for either the penetrator forming or simply as a claymore type weapon, hell, maybe even set, toss / place and leave.

    But getting back to the main issue, as stuff shrinks, more existing platforms will carry more shots, the infantryman, V the AFV / MBt clash is not over, by any means, should we have to go up against massed infantry / armour, we would def need more and possibly some change in ops / eqpmnt. BUT I would hope the smart pigs, ARH’s and so forth thin the bastards out somewhat, before digger has to “Popp the covers off at 500m…NOT GOOD THAT BE>

  15. chazfh Says:

    I miss the Fulda Gap, it held all our hopes and dreams at one stage, and now? Now it’s just a few words on a map of Germany… how sad.

  16. Nautilus Says:

    Me likey things that go bangy!

  17. chazfh Says:

    Naut gets the ‘Most philisophical post of the thread’ award

  18. havock21 Says:

    yeah, CHAZ, somefin real TEAM YANKEE about it, clash of steel……

  19. Nautilus Says:

    YEAH!!!!!!

  20. Moko Says:

    chazfh Says:
    May 15, 2009 at 13:09

    “Ahh talking of feral kitties…”

    HSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

  21. chazfh Says:

    Moko, quick off the rank as well!!!!

    Gotta love that M-storm vid.. oh is it me or does the vehicle being tracked look like JB’s volvo?

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